Tolulope Olasewere

In this issue of our In Conversation With series, I got to speak with first-year IEDPer Fatima. She is brilliant, thoughtful and funny, and it is my pleasure to share a little bit of our conversation with you. In this conversation, we talk about the continuous impermanence of home, the philosophy of recognizing and celebrating the minimum, and the life-saving value of one very special pair of yellow Crocs. I hope you enjoy this.

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Tolulope: Hi Fatima, can you tell me a little bit about where you call home?

Fatima: I think of my mom and the home that we shared. My mom has been infamous (just to me, not generally) for changing the home that we live in every few years or so. The last place I was living was a tiny house, tinier than either of us like…even though me, her and my brother do not take up so much space, we also do not like tiny spaces. I think of the street where this house is at, the street that leads to where a lot of my friends have lived for years. For the past two years, the home has been the same. A nice little place covered by bougainvillea which always seems to grow wherever she goes.

Tolulope: That is so beautiful. I remember the first time I read the word bougainvillea in one of my favorite books Purple Hibiscus by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, and the imagery of just looking it up and seeing it for the first time is stuck in my head. So, whenever anyone mentions it, I feel like I am 11 years old again.

Fatima: That’s a great image to have.

Tolulope: Thinking about all these spaces you have called home, and the process of making them feel like home at least in some way, how would you say your transition to Philly and Penn has been so far?

Fatima:  One of the things about Philly is that it actually was one of my more reluctant choices. This is because I thought of other places that felt more like home. I really don’t like change and relocating even though I have had to do it multiple times in my life. I was having a conversation with my roommate, and we were talking about if we have settled in. And I guess now the thing that make Philly feel like home are very specific. For example, the lobby of our building has a very specific smell. When we come home from the day outside and we smell that smell, it feels like home. And this apartment is the space that we have created for ourselves. Although Philadelphia might not be home, we have still given this space meaning. It is populated by not the outside world, but me, my friend of 13 years and our friendship in between, and everything that we brought with us. Another thing definitely has to be the people. I did not expect it to happen so fast, but the cohort…there is this one person from the second-year cohort who hugs like a mom (not my mom though, she hates hugging). Just people like that too have helped with that feeling of home.

Tolulope: I am also thinking about our cohort, and I think we are very lucky. Everyone is so kind and thoughtful and wants to spend time with you. And we are always anticipating each other’s needs. It’s great.

Fatima: It absolutely is!

Tolulope: I wonder, what is it like living with your friend who is also in the same program as you?

Fatima: It’s very familiar, not because I know her but because I know what living with her is like. I spent, collectively, half the year in her house and half the year in mine when I was back in Pakistan. I think the presence is a huge proponent of making things feel familiar, and even the struggles being familiar is better than unfamiliar struggles. Like, I know how she likes her chicken overcooked. It’s awful but it’s familiar.

Tolulope: So, curious to know, what would you say is your purpose or mission in life? What gets you excited? Does not need to be fully defined?

Fatima: There are two prongs to this. The first comes from a very old memory of seeing this clip of firefighters or frontline workers that are dedicated to helping cows that are trying to veer off cliffs unto steep edges and rescuing them. It’s a really funny profession, and I remember thinking that this is what I want life to be – just saving some cows off some cliffs.

Tolulope: I love that.

Fatima: It’s still pretty much the case. I don’t know what it looks like, but I know that I don’t need a long life or a great life, but one where I can get that sense of accomplishment which you do when you help someone. That’s one purpose. The other one is a recent one because I did not experience it before, but now that I have I cannot get enough of it. It’s just definitely being in new places which is tricky because I am homesick all the time. However, the feeling of being in Barcelona last year and the feeling I had when I went to Turkey…it really puts into perspective the kinds of people you meet, experiences you have and the fact that home is so extremely fluid. I don’t need to feel like it was a place or a person all my life, it could be anywhere.

Tolulope: That is so, so beautiful. I struggle with feelings of home as well, and for me, the thing that endures in my thoughts is a quote. I forget who it is by. But it’s something about how we are always arriving at ourselves and we never really do arrive. I think the same can also be said to home. I always used to think that I would have made it when I can come home and have a home base, a place that I have built for myself, that everything has culminated to this. But I am starting to think that maybe we are always arriving at our home, in the presence of different places, in the company of different people and even in the embrace of different moments.

Fatima: And if I get a tattoo, I will have that written down. Now, we just have to make the decision of getting it…I have so much on my roster.

Tolulope: I know, I’ve been thinking of getting one too for years. Maybe we’ll go together.

Fatima: Yes, imagine that!

Tolulope: Can you tell me what is something that you enjoy doing just for the sake of it?

Fatima: I am going to say cooking.

Tolulope: Reader, Fatima is literally cooking right in front of me at the moment she said this.

Fatima: I cooked when I was really long, and as I grew up, I kept coming back to it. Coming back home from school or classes, just like this, I just go ahead and start cooking.

Tolulope: Love that for you! So, I am going to ask you some PennGSE questions. I want to know why you chose PennGSE. How did you know this was the right decision for you to make at that point in your life?

Fatima: It’s a bit complicated because a lot of my decision-making was given over to Fullbright as they have the final say in where we go. At the same time, I did pull a lot of strings to make it happen. Mostly just praying for it, and anything else I could do. Honestly, for me it was the people. I saw the program and saw that it was going to be 25-30 people and that those people would come from many different countries. That to me was rare. I knew that there would be opportunities for scholarships, and that there would be people like me there. Our director being from Pakistan was also a big factor. That she is the program lead, and well, she’s not a white man. Also, just the way the website was written you can tell what the program would be like, what the priorities are. It did not feel like their view of development came from a dominantly American perspective and end there.

Tolulope: What would you say your favorite class is this semester? What do you value in the way the class is taught and what you are getting from it?

Fatima: My answer is Dr. Ghaffer-Kucher’s International Development class. I think it is not so much because of the content, but the way it is structured allows me to learn a lot from my peers as opposed to a top-down approach. I am familiar with some of the content from past classes I have taken, but that thing that makes the class interesting is that I get to turn around and talk to my peers. Special mention also to Dr. Thapa’s Monitoring and Evaluation class just because he is the sweetest man and he makes the content feel like a piece of cake which has never before been the case for me.

Tolulope: What would you say is one thing that you are hoping to get out of IEDP?

Fatima: First, the ability to navigate all these structures we are learning about that are not functioning the way they intended and not benefiting who they say they are, while still being able to make sustainable positive change even if it is for one person. Second, I am hoping to get out of this program people who share the same vision and people that I admire so much. I think I will definitely get the second, but the first also depends on me. Let’s see how that goes.

Tolulope: Think of yourself your first day on campus or a potential future IEDPer, what would you say to yourself or that person knowing what you know now?

Fatima: I would tell them that there is an on-demand Penn shuttle that runs after 6pm on the weekdays and 7:30pm on the weekends. That has been a Godsend.

*we share a laugh inspired by some fond(ish) memories of the shuttle*

Fatima: I would also tell them not to be overwhelmed. I think that the entire campus, university and the program itself is designed such that you have enough coming your way or you finding by chance to make it out, have a good time and make everything turn out fine. I would focus on the genuine moments that come your way at least for the first six months, and then a strategy might fall into place.

Tolulope: There is a sense in which you do get overwhelmed. When things do start to get overwhelming in life or in school, what are some things that help bring you back and help you cope?

Fatima: My answer to that is going to be extremely pragmatic. I came up with this way of measuring the dimensions of success the way I define them. A part of that is acknowledging the minimum that I have to do for this day or week or month. Most of the time we are indeed meeting the minimum and then some, but we are always pushing ourselves to go even higher. But that’s really not necessary, especially in the first five weeks here for example. Really those first few weeks, all you need to know is where your classes are, talk to people and make sure that they are aware of who you are. Setting the minimum really grounds you and allows you to be aware of the resources you have and how to move from there and not the be paralyzed by the big, grand thing you need to achieve.

Tolulope: That is such a good approach, and something that took me far too long to learn. You’re right. Most of the time, we are already achieving the minimum and then some. And we have to recognize that.

Fatima: Exactly. And this allows you to celebrate the small wins along the way. Otherwise, you are always waiting for the big win which may never come or even if it does, never actually feels as sweet or victorious as we think it will.  

Tolulope: Okay, some fun questions. What is your go-to karaoke song?

Fatima: *no hesitation* Love Story. Taylor Swift.

Tolulope: *unintelligible sounds of approval*

Fatima:  I am glad you understand. No two ways about it.

Tolulope: If you could eat one thing for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Fatima: Hummus.

Tolulope: Hummus!

Fatima: I have realized that for better or for worse, I go crazy for hummus.

Tolulope: I have this memory of you at the picnic we had just eating hummus throughout.

Fatima: Right? It’s something I developed just a year or two ago, but I’ve realized that hummus is where it’s at.

Tolulope: Milk before cereal or cereal before milk?

Fatima: I don’t remember the last time I had cereal. Milk before cereal.

*silence*

Fatima: I feel like I have lost.

Tolulope: *quietly* No, it’s okay.

Fatima: I have not discovered the comparative benefit in either of the options because cereal is really expensive in Pakistan but pretty cheap here. So, ask me again at the end of the year!

Tolulope: Okay, I will ask you again. Another question. If your house or apartment caught on fire, and you had to save one material thing, what would you save? It could be your home here or your home somewhere else too.

Fatima: Probably like my shoes. I don’t want to go about buying more shoes. I’ll either get the Vans or the Crocs…probably the Crocs. They’re bright yellow!

Tolulope: Honestly, that’s very fair.

 This conversation is not a complete transcript and has been edited for the purpose of this blog with explicit consent from the participant.